Disclaimer: The views expressed in this interview are solely those of the interviewee.
Past ISSTD President, Dr Warwick Middleton, MD interviewed Nick Bryant in August 2019 to discuss Nick’s work investigating cases of organised child abuse. This interview pre-dates Epstein’s death and the risk to his life is discussed within the interview, a foreshadowing of events to come.
This is the second part of a two-part series. To read Part One click here.
Warwick Middleton: I’m going to ask for your thoughts in regards to the Epstein matter, and we’re going to talk more about it. One of the key witnesses that has made her testimony quite public is Virginia Roberts, or Virginia Guiffre as she now known. She has stated that she was pandered by Jeffrey Epstein to a large number of rich and powerful figures who include senior political figures and a member of the British royal family. She (also) says – and this is yet to be fully established by other witnesses – that Jeffrey Epstein was secretly recording at least some of the sexual contacts she allegedly had with senior figures and that presumably tapes of these contacts exist somewhere. We know that very recently when the Southern District of New York launched an investigation that the first thing they did was to use a crow-bar to break Jeffrey Epstein’s front door to his 7-story mansion and to go then straight to his safe. What do you think is going on?
Nick Bryant: One of the discs was allegedly labelled with the name of a person who is affluent, a powerbroker and then (the name of) a victim. We don’t know the victim and we don’t know the power-broker. But I have known that Jeffrey Epstein has been clandestinely taping people. In 2005, when the Palm Beach Police Depart served a warrant on Jeffrey Epstein’s home, they found two hidden cameras. Hidden cameras have been a part of his reality for quite some time.
What I try to tell people, when they say “Jeffrey Epstein has a person compromised”, (is that) if you are compromising powerful people, people who have access to thugs, murderers, you have to have an organisation behind you that is very powerful. You can’t be just Jeffrey Epstein and whack people. So, these people knew that if they tried to do something to Jeffrey Epstein, something would be visited upon them that is far worse.
So, if you are blackmailing very powerful people – you cannot do that and live, unless you have an organisation behind you. And those people that you are blackmailing have got to be aware of that organisation, or else they will take you out in a heartbeat. Legs broken, arms broken or whatever they do.
Warwick Middleton: You were the first person, via Gawker, to publish full details of Epstein’s so-called “Little Black Book” and the flight manifests of Epstein’s private jet. Can you, in an overview, tell us what you think is going on with Jeffrey Epstein and what sort of a network he is involved with?
Nick Bryant: I acquired the “Black Book” about five or six years ago, and at the same time, I acquired the passenger manifest. What is troubling is that I pitched that “Black Book” to every major magazine in New York and none of them would touch it. So that was frustrating for me. I had so much evidence at that point, I had police reports. I had everything and I still couldn’t get anybody to touch it. The response to Epstein is very similar to what I experienced with Larry King and Spence. Epstein ran a very large paedophile network, that panders young girls to rich and powerful men, just the way that King and Spence ran a network that pandered mostly boys, but also young girls, to powerful people. They are very similar and blackmail I believe was part of the Epstein network and certainly blackmail was part of the King and Spence network. Federal and local law enforcement got corrupted in Epstein’s case – when he had to do 13 months for all the girls he molested, and especially when the Feds had a list of like, 38 victims. So, it is very, very similar to what I have written about in “The Franklin Scandal”, very similar.
Warwick Middleton: If you were to actually compare the two, what are the key points of similarity?
Nick Bryant: You’ve got underaged kids being flown all around, state to state, being molested with impunity by rich and powerful men, and then you’ve got a corruption of local and federal law enforcement and the judiciary. I think that those are the common denominators, and of course I think that there is blackmail going on – with both networks. So, I think there are a number of similarities about what people are finding out about Epstein and the Franklin scandal.
Warwick Middleton: What do you make of the fact that in both scenarios a key powerful abuser has reasonably intimate connections with one or more American presidents?
Nick Bryant: It shows that these networks go all the way to the top of the food-chain. The Franklin scandal went all the way to the top of the food-chain and I believe that Jeffrey Epstein’s network does too. That’s why they had to be covered up – there’s too many politicians, too many powerful people, very powerful people, who would be exposed if a network like that isn’t covered up.
Warwick Middleton: Can you think of any other example in US history, where we’ve had not one, but two American presidents, falling over themselves to go on the public record to distance themselves from a predatory paedophile?
Nick Bryant: Yes, it is pretty amazing. I hope this opens up the minds of Americans, and I think it is happening a little bit. I see really similar stories by the mainstream media regarding Jeffrey Epstein. They are getting away from the fact that Jeffrey Epstein pandered children to rich and powerful people. They are writing about Jeffrey Epstein’s DNA and things like that, which kind of bothers me a little bit. I’d really like the media to stick to how he got away with molesting so many kids with impunity and also, what we really need to find out is who were the other guys molesting these kids? That’s what we really need to know. That’s what the media really should be focussed on right now – the fact that Epstein really wasn’t the only guy who was molesting these kids. The media really needs to dig into that.
Warwick Middleton: Nick, within a few days of being arrested and put in a Manhattan prison, there seemingly was either an attempt to murder Jeffrey Epstein, or alternatively, an attempt by himself, to suicide. Is it not hard to imagine that there are a whole lot of people who would breathe a sigh of relief if Epstein, one way or another, was dead at this point?
Nick Bryant: You have to keep in mind that Epstein corrupted a US attorney who was ultimately made US Secretary of Labour, one of the most powerful positions in the US government. There was that much power deployed that they corrupted a US attorney. So, ultimately with Epstein, what is interesting – is that with the Franklin scandal, Craig Spence committed suicide. I don’t think he was “suicided”. I think he committed suicide. I think that all his money had been taken away. He’d become a crack addict and he could no longer function the way that he needed to function. So, I think he took his own life. Now with King, he did ten years in prison and was taken care of after he got out of prison. He was basically given a no-show job and he kept his mouth shut.
Now with Epstein, he’s going to do the rest of his life in prison, at this point. There is an outside chance of him talking, so that he could get his sentence reduced. I just don’t think that is going to happen. I think that with the people that Jeffrey Epstein pandered children to, it’s been shown how powerful they were, that they have been able to corrupt a grand jury and also a US attorney. I think Jeffrey Epstein knows that if he starts talking, his life won’t be very long. That’s what I believe.
Warwick Middleton: So, if you were advising authorities in terms of being able to deliver Jeffrey as a witness for some form of trial, what would you be doing?
Nick Bryant: If the system wasn’t thoroughly corrupted in regards to his case, you could make him a state witness, where he would testify, but I just don’t think that is going to happen. The way that the Trump administration is configured – I think the Attorney General is very corrupt. What is kind of interesting is that the Southern District for Manhattan are known for being “cowboys” as far as taking on cases. They aren’t sanctioned. They are known for really taking on the system. So, I haven’t figured out yet whether that move was by the Southern District acting unilaterally, or whether it was a Department of Justice directive that came down to the Southern District. I just don’t know at this point.
Warwick Middleton: Nick, you’ve been endeavouring for some years to have a documentary film series made on the Franklin scandal. You’ve also clearly been wanting to say more about the Epstein matter. What is the chance of you being able to get a film made or do some in-depth analysis associated with a publication in a mainstream media regarding Jeffrey Epstein?
Nick Bryant: Thus far two major magazines have shut me down with stories about Epstein. It is mind-boggling, because I know the Epstein story better than any other journalist in New York. I can see by their reporting that they are just jumping into this at the shallow end of the pool. They don’t understand the larger ramifications of Epstein. “The Franklin Scandal” has been optioned by Magnolia Pictures for three years. Magnolia has a very good reputation. Rob Reiner hooked up with Magnolia for a while and pitched “The Franklin Scandal”. We’ve been rejected by every network. I thought when Rob Reiner came on board, that that would be it, a slam-dunk at that point, but we were rejected by every network. You know, every magazine article I pitched on Franklin was rejected. I had an agent that tried to sell “The Franklin Scandal” book proposal, and it was a very large book, but he couldn’t sell it. So, I’ve been rejected on this thing forever. I just pitched another magazine article on Epstein today. The editor was aware of my work in this area, so hopefully I will get some good news about that. Magnolia Pictures has really hung in there. Most people have read about the rejections and have just given up on it. A few very distinguished film makers have given a rejection on Franklin, and that was it. But Magnolia Pictures have been having rejections on Franklin for like – three years, and they are still hanging in there with it, so I find that pretty amazing.
Warwick Middleton: Some have observed that nothing succeeds like persistence and you are one of the most persistent investigative journalists we’ve ever had.
Nick Bryant: (Laughs) At this point it would be very hard for me to do a u-turn. (both laugh) I’ve put a lot of effort in.
Warwick Middleton: Where do you see your work fitting in with the wider spectrum of things that have evolved in society’s awareness about trauma and also with what has happened within the field of trauma and dissociation? We are now in an age where powerful men who lead double-lives, are being exposed. There’s positives and negatives about that, but how much does that give you an entre to take forward your work?
Nick Bryant: It can’t hurt. That’s for sure. What I would like to do is make a docu-series or a film about Franklin. I’ve really wanted to do that. Magnolia has really hung in there with me. It’s great that I’ve found a team of people who don’t seem bothered by rejection – like me.
Epstein, there is a lot of stuff about Epstein that I have, that no one else has, so I would like to see a mainstream media magazine give me a shot at Epstein. Like I said, I’ve been rejected a couple of times by mainstream media magazines.
Warwick Middleton: As I have said Nick, this is just my opinion, but it seems like there is a really nice opportunity to have an article published that goes along the lines of, “We’ve been here before”. And you are in a unique position to do so. It draws together the key dynamics of the Franklin scandal, overlying the key dynamics of the Epstein scandal.
Nick Bryant: I think that would make a great article. Actually, that article has been rejected by two magazines already. I just pitched a magazine today. I’ve got some stuff on Epstein that no one has. So, we’ll see what happens. It’s really hard when you’ve been branded one way to get back in the groove with these editors and publishers in New York State. When you’ve been branded a “conspiracy theorist”, even though you have published a book, haven’t been sued, and everything I said about Jeffrey Epstein turned out to be true, man it’s very strange. You would think these editors and publishers would embrace you with both arms: “You’re Nick Bryant! You’ve been right all along!” (both laugh) “And we’re really sorry and we are going to publish everything that you write from here on in!” But I have not been treated as a conquering hero.
Warwick Middleton: The nature of human nature is that that rarely happens! And the one thing editors really hate is being exposed as being wrong.
Nick Bryant: You know, in New York the publishing industry is very myopic in a lot of ways, especially when you get into trauma, child abuse, paedophile networks. They would rather believe that it doesn’t happen. They’d just rather believe that.
My third book will be on sexual blackmail. This is about heterosexual honey-traps involving adults and which have led to a major change in the trajectory of history. I think it will be as mind-boggling as “The Franklin Scandal”. I’ve been working on it for quite some time. It’s as corroborated as “The Franklin Scandal”.
A Further Update
Since this interview was conducted in August 2019, significant events have happened in the case of Jeffery Epstein, including his death by apparent suicide. While these have been documented in mainstream media, Nick has also been at work, investigating the still-unfolding story. While this is the end of our interview series with Nick Bryant, we have opportunity to hear more about the Epstein affair directly from Nick as he will be presenting at ISSTD’s 37th Annual Conference in San Francisco next month.
Nick’s presentation forms part of a half-day conference workshop presented by Nick Bryant, Colin Ross and Warwick Middleton, and chaired by Heather Hall titled, “Politically Connected Organized Abuse: Understanding Perpetrator Dynamics”, 8:30 – 12:00, Sunday March 15, ISSTD Annual Conference, San Francisco.